Responding to Christianity's Critics

Something Different: An Exchange

This post will be very different from those I’ve written so far. I’m not too sure how well it’ll work so I’d greatly appreciate some feedback. Anyway, it is no secret that I’m not a prolific blogger. I write maybe one or two blogs per month—and this is at my best. Most of the time, many months go by without any update on my part. I do apologize for this but updating a blog with quality content on a regular basis is no easy task. That said, in those months when I haven’t been posting, I haven’t exactly been doing nothing either—well I’ve been doing nothing for the most part—but as I was saying, I was at least somewhat productive. The following is just a small part of what I’ve been up to when too lazy to update this blog. More particularly, I took the time to test out some of my arguments and the results were so well that I got banned in the space of a little less than 2 months. I’d like for the reader to follow the exchange between Sol Invictus and whoever he is discussing with (there are quite a few participants who come and go). The subject of the discussion is the Holy Trinity (although the participants move on to different topics as the discussion goes on) and what I would like the reader to note is how it is defended repeatedly without any refutation by the opposition.

(I know that I ended up misnumbering but it would be a pain to change the numbers now. Also, clicking the picture will increase its size and make for an easier read.)

1, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3a, 3b, 3c4, 5a, 5b, 6a, 6b, 7a, 7b, 7c, 7d8, 9, 10, 11a, 11b, 11c, 11d, 11e, 11f, 11g, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18a, 18b, 18c, 18d, 18e, 18f, 18g, 19a, 19b, 19c, 19d, 19e20, 23, 24a, 24b, 24c, 25, 26, 27,

3 responses

  1. Yo Methodus =)

    haha.. I can’t believe I actually finished reading through all those that it literally gave me a headache. Gave me something to think about as I noticed the responses of a few individuals in those posts that show they are really seeking God and are open to ideas and discussion.

    Much food for thought offered here as I’m thinking: how can we relate better to them? I remember the scenario in Acts where Paul proclaimed God to the Greek people in a town where they sat all day and listened to ideas, sure some ridiculed but some Believed:

    “23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.” Acts 17:23

    I believe every Christian is to be called to be prepared to give an account for our faith:
    “But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    – 1 Peter 3:15-16

    I have had some experiences talking to Peoples of other religions where some individuals (not all) does not engage in the topic of the apologetic involved but make passing and generalizing statements to “disprove” the faith that we stand on, seemingly just on the basis that:
    (e.g) The Bible is flawed and you cannot trust it (without verifying for themselves)

    In the average Christian’s eyes, we too are taught the Bible can be trusted fully to be the authoritative Word of God, but few of us will ever look at the criticisms of the Bible too seriously (which is a huge issue for me, I find that even the Church is not perfect as we practice the Word of God, some blindly without ever questioning why we do some of the things we do). As 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 puts it: “Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.”

    Without then taking all our tinted glasses off, we can’t arrive at a supposedly neutral stand to discuss the Doctrinal differences as mentioned. (which many can’t due to something being held dear to us being attacked). Again many of our doctrines are brushed off as pure Blasphemy because it is viewed as inherently erroneous.

    In some cases, the result is much like what transpired in the forum posts, where there seems to be a discussion going on, but the parties involved are too cautiously guarded on their own set of beliefs that it comes on the basis of :”I will not believe whatever you say”

    I believe that the Key then is “common ground”. Going into the divinity is in circles because we come from the basis that Jesus is God, while they come from the Basis that Jesus is not God but just a Prophet. Even Jesus Himself said the gospel is a sword that divides:

    “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” (Matthew 10: 34-37)

    Before they can come to understand Jesus as God, it might be then more beneficial to look start with common grounds within both Islam and Christianity. (which I find quite beneficial and constructive).

    1) We do not question the existence of God (the debated: Divinity of Jesus)
    Both Christianity and Islam will agree that there is a God who is all powerful, all knowing, is the Creator and a Loving but Just God.

    2) Faith and Works (the debated: the concept of Sin and Original Sin)
    Muslims believe that there are essentially many things you have to keep to as a true worshiper of God, some examples will be to be charitable, to help the poor etc. The common ground here is the motivation of God behind these “Laws” we keep to: Love and compassion for His people.

    To dig deeper into our faith that commands Works as an outflow in a retroperspective manner, we wlll ask:”what is the purpose of doing all these Good?” Can doing 1 single good thing or 1 million good things in Life buy a ticket into the gateways of heaven?

    More often than not, I see arguments about How there is no Original Sin and Christians trying to explain the Original Sin is an inherent Nature. But really the point is this: “whatever the way Sin came about. If there is one sinful man now, how is He saved?”

    3) Love/Devotion for God and Love/compassion for Man
    In essence, the Word of God calls for a response from each and every individual of us.
    Worship of God, Repentance for Sin, Surrender of Lives over to God Is in a nutshell the responses of us required of us when God revealed His Glory to us.

    Again the debate here is the target of worship.

    The very reason why Christians misrepresent Christ is summed well by this:

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
    – Mohandas Gandhi

    Quoting from Ravi Zachariah’s book: “Are judgements Inevitable?”,
    The concept of being tolerance is relevant when we relate to peoples of other beliefs:
    Many people actually believe that if one believes that he is right, and another is wrong, then he is being intolerant. This is so often the description of Christians – we who claim to have the “one and only way to the Father”.

    But this is a misunderstanding.

    Historically tolerance has been defined as:” putting up with beliefs one takes to be erroneous or false.” – It means we respect peoples for their beliefs. but it doesn’t mean we have to agree with what they believe.

    Today, People believe rather that Tolerance stands for “accepting all views as true and not saying that any are false.” And this is really how we come off when we are being refered to as Intolerant instead of the former. This is relativity and perception, not Tolerance.

    But if we accept the latter definition of tolerance, we be contradicting ourselves, because evidently, the Muslim and Christian cannot see eye to eye with all our views. But we all need to understand this:

    “tolerance, properly understood, means that we respect people enough to permit them to hold their beliefs even if we profoundly disagree with them.”

    That is one starting point many misunderstand us when we come to them with the Bible: we are not trying to convert, nor to disapprove any other religion, certainly not forcing the Gospel of Jesus down throats. In fact, apologetics came as a “defence for the Christian faith”

    I feel the reason why the discussions get heated like mentioned in one of the posts is the presumption that if we are proven “wrong” or we can’t support our stands we have to accept the other person’s stand.

    All people should be accepted and worthy of respect and Love.

    Side note: these types of forums probably exist a lot anywhere else in the internet. lol. May God Draw those who draw near to Him.

    God Bless =) lol. sorry bout long post. Didn’t know it will come up this long.

    December 1, 2011 at 3:00 AM

    • First off, thanks for reading through all of that! It really is a lot to absorb in one sitting and yes, you are entirely correct—there are certainly individuals who are open to discussion but sadly these are few and far between. Speaking of the forum, the overwhelming majority was quite belligerent and interested only in stating insults. Now, I don’t quite mind being insulted for what I believe as long as I am also given the opportunity to defend my faith yet those individuals who have already closed their minds to any discussion are quite the sizable majority hence why I was banned so easily. Oh well, that’s life I suppose.

      I believe that the Key then is “common ground”. Going into the divinity is in circles because we come from the basis that Jesus is God, while they come from the Basis that Jesus is not God but just a Prophet. Even Jesus Himself said the gospel is a sword that divides

      I quite agree with the above but as it concerns the discussion that this article has to do with, you will note that it wasn’t so much one concerning the biblical evidence for Christ’s divinity but rather it was concerning the logical intelligibility of the Trinity. It was an attack on the basis of logic and so I used logic to show how the doctrine was not in fact contrary to reason. In this instance, the common ground was logic and as such I used reason to put to rest the claims that the Muslim position was propagating. Aside from this, I agree with everything else that you have said.

      I feel the reason why the discussions get heated like mentioned in one of the posts is the presumption that if we are proven “wrong” or we can’t support our stands we have to accept the other person’s stand.

      Yes, the above is a very real problem—I believe that I mentioned it once or twice in the thread in question. As far as (most) Muslims are concerned, I believe that this partly has to do with the fact that they tell themselves that the doctrine of the Trinity is illogical and as such when they are actually faced with a proper explanation of it, they can’t bear it seeing as at heart, it was never a matter of thinking that the Trinity is an illogical doctrine but rather a matter of simple unbelief. They refuse to be taught the truth on the subject and at that is the point where discussion fails and we must pray that God will be merciful and open their hearts and mind.

      Side note: these types of forums probably exist a lot anywhere else in the internet. lol. May God Draw those who draw near to Him.

      Yes they exist everywhere and for the most part they merely function as a place where individuals can insult the religions of others which is why when an adherer of said religion becomes a member and furthermore is able to respond and put to rest their criticism, he is greatly hated. I will put up the rest of my discussions on the forum and you will soon see how much I was disliked but whatever happens, hopefully God will be able to use this to reach the hearts of Muslims.

      December 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM

  2. Pingback: Talking About Logic « God Omnipotent

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